Retaining Counsel, The Internet Way

Matt Brown at  Tempe Criminal Defense posts about clients who find him from a distance, as opposed to those referred by other lawyers or clients, and the “interview” process.


Whereas the majority of people only care that someone they trust told them to call me and that I have a nice office, suits that fit (more or less), and a bar number, some people need numbers. They want numbers about my experience, my practice, the system, and their case. It’s because numbers make an unscientific decision like hiring a lawyer seem somewhat scientific. It’s a complex decision, and the idea of boiling the process down to comparing statistics comforts some people.


Unfortunately, a little knowledge can be a bad thing. A numbers-obsessed prospective client can easily end up worse-informed than someone who doesn’t ask any questions. The problem isn’t the information, but their perspective. Information, especially numbers, can be misleading without context.


Matt writes of an “interview” where the potential client’s final question pushed the envelope:



They wanted an exact number, so I told them. At the time, the number was fourteen. I immediately realized they weren’t going to hire me.


The number startled them. They asked me how I kept them all straight. Fourteen seemed like a huge number to them. Without a frame of reference, I might as well have told them I was too busy to handle the case.


Chalk this up to the wags who have nothing better to do than post lists of questions on the internet that people should ask lawyers before retaining them.  A well educated consumer researches such things.  And ends up worse off than they began.

The phenomenon Matt describes didn’t exist ten years ago.  Rarely did people run around interviewing a dozen criminal defense lawyers whose names they found online.  They sought recommendations and then acted upon them.  Weeks and months weren’t lost to interviews, not to mention many hours of both lawyer’s and potential client’s lives, in this strange new process.

These lists are asinine.  Even assuming, as was the case with Matt, that the lawyer answers honestly — which those who are desperate may not be inclined to do — it remains what the answers to inane questions mean to the potential client. 

Common questions, such as how many such cases have you done, have become the norm, inevitably followed up by how many did you win.  Except the former ignores that each case is different, and the result in past cases means nothing to future cases.  Still they ask.  Still we answer.  And they walk away worse for knowing.

In Matt’s case, the question about how many cases he had clearly related to whether he has the time to give the potential client the close, personal contact the client demands.  There was a problem with the prior attorney, who Matt describes in glowing terms, not being constantly available to the client. 

The irony is that the client wants the lawyer who has done the particular type of case in question a thousand times before, with great success, but now only carries a couple of cases on his docket.  And while it isn’t mentioned, likely charges of fraction of what others would charge to defend the same case.



Every client seems to dream of the once-a-mega-volume lawyer with an unbelievable amount of experience who decided to pare his practice down to a select few cases. Although that’s not completely unheard of, it’s unusual. I’ve yet to see it on such a grand scale and in under a couple decades of experience.


A little math would’ve made them see that fourteen isn’t that much. A little math would’ve made it clear that thousands of clients in a decade, something indicative of the experience factor most people consider very important in a lawyer, is a lot more than fourteen.


Don’t blame the client.  They don’t do the math.  They don’t think it through.  The don’t add up the experience they want, plus the availability they demand, with the price they can afford.  Sure, they have the capacity (well, some at least) to make sense of the craziness of their interviewing process, but they’ve learned from the internet, from the blogosphere, that they must ask a list of questions or they will make a bad decision.  They read blog posts, and are stupider for having done so. They just don’t realize it. Yet.

In Matt’s case, the potential client left a great lawyer, interviewed Matt, and ended up elsewhere.


Curious, I looked up the lawyer I think they hired. They didn’t stick with the one they had, who’s actually great. The guy they chose had a great website. That’s about it. It boasts that he’s handled “thousands” of cases in ten years of practice. Assuming “thousands” means at least two thousand, I calculate that to be over two hundred cases a year.

Matt doesn’t bad-mouth the lawyer they hired, though the statement that he had a great website suggest more sizzle than beef.  If there’s any good news in this scenario, it’s that this isn’t the client that anyone really wants, as they will flee the next lawyer as well for not being available 24/7 for hand-holding, or not producing the huge win in the impossible case. 

This is the product of those who pretend transparency comes from a grocery clerk’s list, and that everything in law can be comoditized.  The claims of doing it for the client is nonsense.  It doesn’t serve the client. It doesn’t serve the honest lawyer.  The only person who benefits is the lawyer who will say anything to score a case, the one who really wants to get clients from a website who know nothing about him and believe that he’s truly “experienced, aggressive and caring.” 

And even he will end up ruing the day he answered these inane questions, because these are the clients from hell.




 


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9 thoughts on “Retaining Counsel, The Internet Way

  1. Marc R

    Should Matt have told the potential client that he wasn’t going to answer the questions and explain why? Or are those questions indicative of a client who will be such a pain that he should’ve ended the interview and said he was too busy? On the one hand, you want the client and you know you can do a good job. On the other, the money isn’t worth the hand-holding.
    Other than “these are bad questions and the fault of bad websites”, what practical advice is there for the potential lawyer faced with those types of potential clients?

  2. AH

    If he served as a former prosecutor or public defender he will have handled “thousands of cases”. I once closed 1,000 DUIs in one year. “Handled” doesn’t mean “tried”. That’s a standard “aggressive former prosecutor” advertising line.

    The key to advertising generated clients is to control the meeting. Ask the clients about themselves, their problem, how it will affect them and what their expectations are. People love to talk about themselves. Anyone who cannot subtly control the flow of questions is not a trial lawyer. Body language is more important that anything you say. Take your time and do everything right. Ask about the details of the case and carefully read with them the documents that the police gave them. Spend an hour with them and they will feel very comfortable with you. They will not leave your office unless they are uncomfortable with your price.

    Lots of advertising lawyers are really cheap.
    But some of the most expensive lawyers that I know are advertising lawyers. The free initial consultation is an art not taught in law school.

  3. Turk

    Common questions, such as how many such cases have you done, have become the norm, inevitably followed up by how many did you win. Except the former ignores that each case is different, and the result in past cases means nothing to future cases.

    Well, it seems perfectly reasonable to ask, if you are hiring a lawyer for a murder defense for example, how many times they’ve tried cases before.

    Win/loss is different, of course, but I’d want to know the person has stood in the well of the courtroom before without puking all over his shoes.

  4. SHG

    He should have moved the question to what the client really wanted to know, did he do too much volume to provide a personal level of representation, but he also needed to assess what level of personal service the client expected, and whether he was interested in providing it.

    As for practical advice, I’ve never been interviewed by a client. I interview them to decide if they are the client I want to represent. And I make it clear from the outset that the only question I’m concerned with is whether I am interested in taking their case.  In most instances, I’m not, and when I decide I don’t want a case, the meeting is over with a hearty handshake, a warm “good luck,” and a walk toward the door.

  5. SHG

    Have you tried cases (and how many felonies to verdict before a jury), is a great, and important question, and a different question than “how many drug cases have you handled.”

  6. Andrew

    Well, yes, sadly, one accused of murder really does need to know whether their prospective attorney has tried cases before, since apparently we cannot count on the attorney to have the ethical standards and good sense not to take the case otherwise.

    Also, don’t forget to ask whether the attorney took Evidence in law school.

  7. Andrew

    Wow… this naïve non-lawyer is a little shocked that you get *that* many prospective clients that you find unsuitable. How do so many meetings go from “Hi, I need a criminal defense attorney” to “Good luck?” Is it more a matter of your interest level in the case at hand, or is it some defect with the client or the client’s case that tells you, in your experience, that you are better off staying away? (Or some other factor, combination, etc.). I’m just curious.

  8. SHG

    It can be any number of things that makes me interested or not in a case, but since I take only a limited number of cases, and charge accordingly, it works well for me.  I only take serious, or unusual, cases. I only with with people I enjoy working with. I charge more than some people can pay.  One thing I will not do is take a case for someone who I find annoying off the top. It won’t be a good fit.

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