It’s back, not that it’s ever really been gone. But this time, it’s back, bigly.
On Monday, President Joe Biden announced a second attempt at federal student loan forgiveness. The new plan, which is estimated to affect over 30 million borrowers when combined with earlier efforts, aims to enact widespread loan cancelation primarily by expanding existing forgiveness programs and targeting borrowers with high balances due to accumulating interest.
Sure, the Supreme Court rejected Biden’s last attempt to bootstrap emergency powers into shifting billions off the shoulders of the students who signed for the loans and got the benefit of a college education and onto the taxpayer, who may or may not have enjoyed any benefit or scrimped and saved to put himself though college, unaware that he could have bought a Lambo instead and waited until his student loans were forgiven.
For students saddled with crushing debt after learning that there isn’t really a lot of money to be made majoring in critical theory, loan forgiveness is a godsend. So what if they willingly took out the loans under mistaken pretenses, believing that college was worthwhile at any price.
While the Biden administration claims that this latest slate of student loan forgiveness will “make sure higher education is a ticket to the middle class—not a barrier to opportunity,” widespread loan forgiveness ultimately exacerbates the problems it aims to solve: that degree programs that cost too much, and that students take on more debt than necessary to attend school.
For others, it’s yet another burden on their shoulders for a benefit they neither asked for nor enjoyed. Does this just encourage colleges to continue to raise their obscenely high tuition with the expectation that they’ll get their money while their students will get a free ride? Is this “equity,” by making taxpayers who enjoy no college degree pay for those who do? What happens to students five, ten years from now when they find out their debt won’t be canceled?
Don’t bring up better alternatives to loan forgiveness, as they’re not on the table. What will be the net result of Biden’s fulfilling his campaign promise to forgive student debt?
*Tuesday Talk rules apply, within reason.
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I do not work in financial aid, but I have worked in University Registrar’s offices for 25 years.
Some level of forgiveness, I believe, should be ??required??. There was a long period of time where for-profit institutions did sketchy things to under informed students and people who should never have been sent to college in the first place. They wanted to tap into the federal money for the purpose of enriching themselves as administrators. These students should have their loans forgiven. I cannot give you parameters that I would start with exactly as this is just feelz….I do have a friend who just had 8k in loans forgiven because he attended ITT Tech and had loans taken out in his name that he claims he did not authorize.
But, we also have students at the school I work at now who pay 65k a year for a BFA in Dance so they can work on a Disney cruise line. I would not forgive those loans. We have a top five in the country dance program but so what. Dance careers might be a little longer than NFL careers but not much longer. I would not forgive those loans.
Going forward the Feds are re-introducing their gainful employment rules. This might, just might, cut down on the crazy going forward. But that’s is definitely another topic.
Off topic I am sure, but the higher ed system is broken, and should be blown up and rebuilt. Again, I have no vision on how. 10 years to retirement….thank the godz.
Scott
If the loans are to be forgiven, it should be part of a criminal investigation in which the banks and “universities” responsible for the student loan scam are prosecuted and the responsible individuals put in jail, and the vast majority of “higher education” sellers shut down and their assets distributed to the victims of the scam.
Stealing money from the taxpayers to repay the victims is a desperate attempt to keep the scam running.
I’m old fashioned enough to believe that if you take out a loan you pay it back. I worked my way through college, graduating debt free. It took longer and meant not having much of a social life but it was worth it, IMO.
And I wonder how long it’ll be before these same people want debt relief because they can’t afford their home mortgage.
My family was poor and I had no money, so I joined the military with the intention of going to college afterward. I could have been killed in action, but it was a risk I was prepared to take. If I was killed, would Biden give me my life back?
Like most people here, I’ve paid attention to the reason people believe they are entitled to student debt forgiveness. It’s about the money. The debt is crushing. There is no recognition that if they don’t pay the debt, it will have to come from someone else. I suspect they don’t care, which is understandable given the burden they’re under. I also suspect they can’t grasp why others who will pay for their education do care, and just believe they’re bad people who don’t appreciate their entitlement.
The Dean of the law school I worked at (at which I worked?) said at an all hands retreat that the most important person present was the financial aid officer. Nuf said!
“Crushing debt” has little to do with it. Most of those wanting forgiveness came from upper middle class and many have good jobs. It’s narcissistic greed not wanting to accept the lifestyle necessary to pay off the debt coupled with the belief that the world owes them whatever benefit they demand. It’s really our generation’s fault for failed child-rearing.
Student loan debt forgiveness can be viewed as just another stage in the ongoing process of citizen infantilization. The Left wants a government that will treat you like a child, keep dangerous things out of your hands, put the other kids in time-out if they step out of line, and give you an allowance. Speech codes, safe spaces, universal basic income, etc all serve this purpose. Debt forgiveness will augment the growing elements of our culture that view effort, achievement and accomplishment as pointless if not illegitimate.
Bad idea. You took the dime, you take the time (to repay). It’s important to learn personal responsibility at some point in life – and that choices have consequences. Bad choices have bad consequences.
But that’s probably just sour grapes because I scrimped and went without and did all sorts of things in order to get mine paid off.
There are far better alternatives that put the onus where it belongs (other than on the taxpayer), but, as per instructions from our host, I will not mention them.
I’m pretty sure if a Republican President put an idea like this forward, it would be called buying votes.
The problem is loan forgiveness does not magically disappear the debt, it simply lays it off on those who worked hard after graduation and paid off their debt, worked hard during school and minimized debt, and those who avoided the whole “college is the ticket to the middle class” spiel, went into the trades and have a fleet of quads, snowmobiles and a boat.
The people who signed on the dotted line were adults, old enough to vote, and if they weren’t taught they should have learned. Too many people want free stuff, and this is ultimately just political patronage, and the few hard heads remaining in the party are hoping it fails because they can blame the unmet campaign promise on the evil Republicans.
They should call it a taxpayer-funded bailout of our educational institutions. Except it’s really more of a growth strategy than a rescue plan. When do they start subsidizing timeshare debts?
FWIW, this isn’t an issue that I’m fully up to speed on, but it seems to me there should probably be sev’l strata or categories of relief. Those that were essentially defrauded by the “for profit” institutions shouldn’t have to repay the debt. Some others (e.g., teachers and perhaps soc’l workers) whose work provides great societal good w/o much recompense, should probably have all or part of their debts forgiven. Many/ most others should not.
JMO, and I hope it doesn’t it’s seen as a clarification/ modification rather than an alternative in keeping w/ our host’s wishes.
Some states do have programs where the state will pay the balance of your loans if you teach in the state K-12 schools for a certain number of years. Those I don’t mind. It’s a form of payment for services rendered.
It’s the blanket forgiveness for debts incurred by adults with no commensurate work that bothers me.
I suspect there are those who would attribute my position to my gender and skin tone, ignoring that we were also poor. I went to community college, worked 40 hours a week with a full load, and had a little help from family. That got me a debt-free degree in computer programming and a really good paying job until I burned out. (Another story for another day).
I also wonder how much of the problem is due to people being unwilling to move where the work is, or take a role that does the job but not in the location they thought. (e.g. becoming an in-house Corporate Compliance officer for a small hospital in Kansas as opposed to getting that sweet law gig in New York).
Currently, it is possible to get a loan forgiven if the college defrauded a student. A family member got loans forgiven when ITT Tech vanished into the ether. Debt forgiveness also exists for disability. I had mine forgiven when medical issues destroyed my chances for gainful employment. So, mostly these strata already exist. There is just no, “I made a bad decision at 18,” stratum. Given that people are never going to stop making bad decisions at 18, I think there should be other solutions, but that’s outside the scope of the current question.
Inside the scope of the question, I figure the net result will be increased college tuition, increased Democratic votes, increased entitlement in the college educated, lowered sense of civic responsibility, increased stigma attached to higher education, and an increase in anger in society.
Student loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy like any other loan, perhaps with a minimum period after graduation absent mitigating circumstances like a major health problem.
Beyond that, schools need to be on the hook for some or all of the money. Right now there’s a disconnect between what schools can charge and the value they provide because the government guarantees the loans.
I can stomach some amount of loan forgiveness, but it needs to be accompanied by an overall reform of the system, not just a political handout.
Why do I bother?
Hope springs eternal?
Alternatively, criminal defense has given you a taste for disappointment and head-on-counsel-table banging?
The idea of forgiving student loan debt could be a great start, It will antagonize the majority of Americans who will vote for a responsible government which will roll back student loan forgiveness, then proceed to the logical next step of entirely eliminating government funded and subsidized education altogether. Dispensing with other socialistic policies such as Medicare, Social Security, etc will shrink needless government expenditures enough that we finally abolish the IRS.
Took a few loans to go to school, took me almost 8 years of macaroni, tuna and no car, social or entertainment budget to pay them off but I did it. But then again, I didn’t take out 3 or 4 x the median national income to get a degree that would guarantee that one in their right mind would hire me.
No one made them sign these loans and I see no reason that I should be the one responsible for them. As has already been stated, no one has taught these kids personal responsibility and consequences and they can’t comprehend that these things would ever apply to them. Time for a new degree from the school of hard knocks.
And no new $1000+ pocket computer every 18 months.
I keep hearing about “consequences”. No one wins re-election by conducting a graduate seminar in “consequences”.
The effect on Biden? Negligible, I should think. Changing people’s opinions is hard, and, based on the comments here, this proposal seems likely to reenforce people in what they already believe.
A tawdry spectacle of a beleaguered dotard trying to buy enough votes to firm up his tenuous grip on power. I expect it will largely fail, as by this point, the impecunious, perpetual children all hate him for other reasons. He is too clueless to see that. His only chance now lies in trying to scare voters with Trump.
The impact on the President is buying votes in a demo he already has and loosing them in a demo at least his people think doesnt matter. He may be surprised.
The impact on the military and others who offer college as an incentive is already being felt. Why join up and die, or teach when you can go to an overpriced school and not pay?
I’m confused…the Supreme Court already shot down loan forgiveness by executive fiat, yet instead of going through Congress to get an actual law passed, President Biden is going to redo it via executive fiat again?
So I gotta ask: For you guys complaining that the citizenry will have to pick up the tab for the forgiven loans…
1) Isn’t what you really mean: “the citizenry is not going to be paid back for the loan they already laid money out for”?
2) How much of that repayment you’re “missing out on” is actually interest payments instead?
3) If the loan’s been outstanding for 10 or 20 years (what the forgiveness plan is saying it’ll forgive), how much are you expecting in repayment? How long are you going to squeeze that stone?
4) How is the situation so much different from the government having subsidized higher education in the first place?
It might be worth looking into how that payment shift happened, and how the student debt issue arose.
You may be wondering why no one is responding to your comment. The answer is that explaining to dopes that they are dopes isn’t nearly as much fun as dopes feel it is. I hope this helps.