Now that biggest case in a lifetime (at least for the moment) has been argued, the lawprofs are all over the Heller oral argument like flies on…stuff that flies like to be on. They’re predicting a 5-1-3 split. They’re predicting a Roberts or Kennedy majority opinion. They’re predicting an individual right, somehow limited to protecting one’s safety inside one’s home with certain arms but not any arms. They’re predicting that the Justices had their minds made up before oral argument, and that it didn’t matter one iota.
So why am I feeling so unfulfilled right now? Because no one wants to talk about the existence or absence of a sound intellectual basis for all these predictions. I’m not saying they’re wrong about how this will turn out. For all I know, they’ve nailed the outcome cold.
But how do you get there from here? I don’t see anything in the 2d Amendment about an individual right to keep and bear arms, but only in one’s home. It doesn’t say that it’s only for self-defense. What words give rise to that belief? Has the militia reference gone from being the dominant clause to being wholly irrelevant, so that the only example refers to some home-based militia need for arms?
And if it’s a fundamental right (aw heck, a right at all), how do you explain stopping felons from exercising it. Do we allow unreasonable warrantless searches as long as it’s of a felon? Are felons not allowed the right to counsel, to confront witnesses, to a jury? Felons can remain silent, engage in free speech, even practice their religion. Why should they suddenly be excluded from an individual right under the 2d? When home invaders shoot a felons, do the bullets harmlessly pass through their bodies?
Hey lawprofs, now that you’ve arrived at your predictions of what the Supreme will do, how do you get there? What rational basis explains the limitations, conditions, restrictions that you predict? Where’s that scholarly approach that you guys love so much?
One of the predictions suggests that the Roberts Court will be “modest” in its approach, meaning that it will decide no more than what it absolutely must to resolve the issue of the total gun ban of the District of Columbia. If so, does this do anything to illuminate how a right for the rest of the nation? Can we understand a right, its breadth and limitations, without the Court bothering to announce it, or will this just breed total chaos across the nation, awaiting another decision from the Supremes as the circuits conflict and the state supreme courts cross each other? And what standard are all the other courts to use? Do they just make it up court by court?
I know, you all want to show that you can guess the outcome of one of the most significant Supreme Court decisions in decades, and I understand that the lawprof who gets it right will probably get tenure, or a pass on teaching crim pro to 1Ls, or a $4 million condo in Manhattan. But if you can stop playing Jimmy the Greek for a moment, please explain how they get there.
Having spent a decent amount of time thinking about, writing about, discussing D.C. v. Heller, I’ve tried hard to devise a logical explanation that would allow the Supreme Court to reach the conclusion that so many seem to desire; that there is an individual right, but a right that extends to all the good guys but keeps weapons out of the hands of all the bad guys.
The right is tested by strict scrutiny when it comes to good guys, and no scrutiny when it comes to the bad guys. The right will permit NRA members to carry any weapon they want, concealed or open, anywhere they want, but will permit government to regulate that right for everyone the government doesn’t like. The problem is that there is no way to justify this beast of a right. Except by just coming out with a brand new rule of constitutional construction: Because we say so. That’s why I’m feeling so unfulfilled.
Doesn’t this bother any of you lawprofs as well? After all, how are you going to write law reviews about this new doctrine if there isn’t any doctrine?
Why does it matter? It’s that old rubric/rationale thing again. It’s not enough to have a rule, but the rule has to be based upon some cognizable legal rationale. How do we argue the next case when there’s no rationale behind it? Without it, we just have a bunch of old folks in Washington making up the rules, and the Supreme aren’t supposed to do that. That job already belongs to Congress.
Update: Carolyn Elefant at Legal Blog Watch posts “Berman’s post also indirectly responds to Scott Greenfield’s question about how we can justify felon gun possession laws if handgun ownership is a fundamental right.” In fact, posts like Doug’s were the genesis of this post. This is not the superficial outcome-oriented question (in fact, it is expressly not about outcome) but about how one can rationally and logically adopt the position that the RKBA is a fundamental individual right without simultaneously adopting the strict scrutiny standard that applies to fundamental rights.
While I realize that the question is more involved than most people want to go, it will prove to be a huge problem going forward when we try to litigate the problems court by court, state by state. Do we have a rule without a rationale, or do we have a cognizable legal doctrine to guide us as this litigation develops? This is a much harder question, and one that has yet to be broached, no less answered.
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The “Supremes” usually formulate decisions based on their philosphy and then find the rationale for that decision afterwards. I have no doubt that the profs are right but the opinion will be convoluted to fit the philosphy. They will figure out a way to ignore the first line of the 2nd amendment and its historical significance. How many militias in 1780’s were equiped with a “Glock” semiautos? And what’s to distinguish them from “arms” meaning a granade, anti-aircraft missile, or dirty bomb.
On a practical level, I would love to see them leave the law alone. Militias today mean National Guard.
The oral argument from yesterday is now up on the internet from several sources. It’s a total of one hour and 38 minutes. You can listen to it on your computer or put it on your iPod and listen to it at your leisure, and wherever you happen to be.
I believe that all of the points so far discussed here are addressed in the oral arguments and differing points of view discussed.
As for predicting the outcome that is usually a fool’s errand, but after listening to the questions the different justices asked you may be tempted.
It’s interesting that you would assume that I haven’t listened to the arguments already, and that you think that any of the anwers to the questions asked during oral argument adequately address any of the questions I’ve asked. Or that I have an iPod.
You should be careful about making unwarranted assumptions. You are mistaken on all counts.
…The appalling ignorance of weaponry was obvious in the oral arguments. Mr. Dellinger concluded that rifles and shotguns were better home defense weapons than pistols and revolvers, notwithstanding the fact that rifle bullets leave the muzzle with about ten times the energy of a handgun bullet and will usually go through a body and multiple walls before coming to rest. Police ‘bulletproof’ vests are only built to defy handgun bullets and are easily defeated by rifle bullets and shotgun slugs. He was never called on this calumny. And the term ” dangerous weapon “, used in the arguments. Well, what could possibly be a weapon if it weren’t dangerous. Moronic.
..It’s hardly surprising that the professors could not define the principles upon which they base their guesses when they were so illserved by the Justices and the pleaders at the oral argument.
Thanks, Dave, for aptly pointing out how we lawyers, left to our own devices, keep tripping over ourselves whenever it comes to technical knowledge of other disciplines.
I don’t blame Dellinger exactly, since that’s what he was paid to say. On the other hand, I still can’t figure out what would give a court would have the power to decide which weapon is sufficiently reasonable to be worthy of 2d Amendment protection. My guess is that there was no such thing as an unreasonable weapon in 1791 (or 1868, as the case may be), meaning that they never considered any arm to fall outside the realm of protection.
The Heller Oracles Speak (Update)
Now that biggest case in a lifetime (again) has been argued, the lawprofs are all over the Heller oral argument like flies on…stuff that flies like to be on.
[And if it’s a fundamental right (aw heck, a right at all), how do you explain stopping felons from exercising it. Do we allow unreasonable warrantless searches as long as it’s of a felon?]
When does a felon become an ex-felon? Is even a low grade nonviolent felony conviction a life sentence? And, if it is, should it be? Do individuals who, at some time in their lives, have been convicted of a felony not have the right to defend themselves, their homes, and their families?
This question is coming from someone who has been a part of the criminal justice system as a police officer, county sheriff, and correctional officer since 1971.
“…how do you explain stopping felons from exercising it. Do we allow unreasonable warrantless searches as long as it’s of a felon?”
“Searches Gone Wild,” you say?
Certainly (to the best of my knowledge), SCOTUS has not gone so far as to as to authorize Searches Gone Wild “as long as it’s of a felon.” But doesn’t Sampson v. California permits statutory schemes that authorize warrantless, suspicionless searches of parolees’ homes, and U.S. v. Knights permits similar statutory schemes for warrantless probationer searches on merely reasonable suspicion?
Regardless of whether we agree or disagree, SCOTUS seems just fine with limiting the rights of at least certain classes of felons in the 4th Amendment context – so I’d imagine that 4th Amendment parallels are not among the arguments that would stop SCOTUS from limiting the rights of felons in the 2nd Amendment context.
Ah, but that’s because they are still serving their sentence, and have yet to pay their debt (even if the bill isn’t very large).
When’s the Last Time You Heard Someone Say…
A former police officer, county Sheriff, and corrections officer asked Simple Justice a simple question: “When does a felon become an ex-felon? Is even a low grade nonviolent felony conviction a life sentence? And, if it is, should it be?”…