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5 thoughts on “The End Of The World (As We Know It)”
Jake
Welcome to the rest of the world. No equivalent of 18B here in Cook County. It’s either PD’s office (which isn’t hiring) or Darwinism. No safety net for newb solos, but plenty of $50 traffic tickets to argue.
Very balanced analysis, Mr. G, of a difficult situation. Thanks again!
SHG
It’s a very touchy discussion in New York, where everybody who does 18B feels tainted whenever anything negative is said about. Unfortunately for the good lawyers who were doing it for the right reasons, there were far too many abusing 18B and doing it for purely self-serving reasons. And doing an awfully bad job of it as well.
Dan
Scott- in your opinion and/or experience do you think 18B provided any benefit to the public and defendants in terms of maintaining the existence of a private defense bar that was able to serve clients in need, but would be much smaller and perhaps consist of only “higher rent” attorneys without the subsidy from 18B?
Steve
I’m on the 18b panel in NYC. I think you’re a little harsh in your assessment of 18b lawyers and have missed what the real problem is in establishing a retained practice in NYC. It is not that the lawyers who rely on 18b are not industrious enough to establish a private practice. While some of what you say is true and there are lawyers who are content to do little work and collect a check from the city, the vast majority of the lawyers on the panel strive to establish a practice outside of 18b. I’ve been lucky that way and mainly do 18b work out of my commitment to indigent defense.
The real problem in establishing a retained practice in NYC is that it is far too easy to get a free assigned lawyer. There is virtually no screening by the courts to determine whether a defendant is indigent or can afford to pay for a lawyer. Defendants who can afford to hire a lawyer (and their number is large)are give free lawyers with no questions asked. The vast majority of these non-indigent defendants, unsurprisingly, choose not to pay for what they’re getting for free. In effect, it is socialized legal defense.
Robbed of a clients requiring their paid services, most criminal lawyers are forced to turn to the panel to practice their profession. In a socialized market, it’s the only game in town.
This RFP will only make matters worse. It will leave the 18b lawyers out in the cold, while still depriving them of paying clients. This will decimate the criminal defense bar, leaving only a relatively few private lawyers who are lucky to have a retained practice. The rest will be institutional lawyers paid by the city.
SHG
I’m surprised it took this long for someone to take umbrage at my description of some 18b lawyers. And that’s the point. You lump them together as if they were all the same. They aren’t. I’ve had this argument many times over the years, and every time you say something negative about the way some 18b lawyers conduct themselves, others will argue about how they aren’t lazy and incompetent, how they don’t abuse 18b, how it isn’t welfare for lawyers.
The point is that some fit your description, and others don’t. But there is no one size fits all 18b lawyer, nor one monolithic group. I’m not harsh at all. In fact, I’ve been more than kind as to the ones who deserve no kindness, and I’ve made clear that all 18b lawyers are not alike.
But as far as your excuse goes, that 18b sucks up the paying clients that free legal services, that’s total nonsense. There are plenty of lawyers who have very successful careers as private lawyers with 18b supplementing, rather than being the entirety, of their practice. Stop kidding yourself.
Welcome to the rest of the world. No equivalent of 18B here in Cook County. It’s either PD’s office (which isn’t hiring) or Darwinism. No safety net for newb solos, but plenty of $50 traffic tickets to argue.
Very balanced analysis, Mr. G, of a difficult situation. Thanks again!
It’s a very touchy discussion in New York, where everybody who does 18B feels tainted whenever anything negative is said about. Unfortunately for the good lawyers who were doing it for the right reasons, there were far too many abusing 18B and doing it for purely self-serving reasons. And doing an awfully bad job of it as well.
Scott- in your opinion and/or experience do you think 18B provided any benefit to the public and defendants in terms of maintaining the existence of a private defense bar that was able to serve clients in need, but would be much smaller and perhaps consist of only “higher rent” attorneys without the subsidy from 18B?
I’m on the 18b panel in NYC. I think you’re a little harsh in your assessment of 18b lawyers and have missed what the real problem is in establishing a retained practice in NYC. It is not that the lawyers who rely on 18b are not industrious enough to establish a private practice. While some of what you say is true and there are lawyers who are content to do little work and collect a check from the city, the vast majority of the lawyers on the panel strive to establish a practice outside of 18b. I’ve been lucky that way and mainly do 18b work out of my commitment to indigent defense.
The real problem in establishing a retained practice in NYC is that it is far too easy to get a free assigned lawyer. There is virtually no screening by the courts to determine whether a defendant is indigent or can afford to pay for a lawyer. Defendants who can afford to hire a lawyer (and their number is large)are give free lawyers with no questions asked.
The vast majority of these non-indigent defendants, unsurprisingly, choose not to pay for what they’re getting for free. In effect, it is socialized legal defense.
Robbed of a clients requiring their paid services, most criminal lawyers are forced to turn to the panel to practice their profession. In a socialized market, it’s the only game in town.
This RFP will only make matters worse. It will leave the 18b lawyers out in the cold, while still depriving them of paying clients. This will decimate the criminal defense bar, leaving only a relatively few private lawyers who are lucky to have a retained practice. The rest will be institutional lawyers paid by the city.
I’m surprised it took this long for someone to take umbrage at my description of some 18b lawyers. And that’s the point. You lump them together as if they were all the same. They aren’t. I’ve had this argument many times over the years, and every time you say something negative about the way some 18b lawyers conduct themselves, others will argue about how they aren’t lazy and incompetent, how they don’t abuse 18b, how it isn’t welfare for lawyers.
The point is that some fit your description, and others don’t. But there is no one size fits all 18b lawyer, nor one monolithic group. I’m not harsh at all. In fact, I’ve been more than kind as to the ones who deserve no kindness, and I’ve made clear that all 18b lawyers are not alike.
But as far as your excuse goes, that 18b sucks up the paying clients that free legal services, that’s total nonsense. There are plenty of lawyers who have very successful careers as private lawyers with 18b supplementing, rather than being the entirety, of their practice. Stop kidding yourself.