Bethany Mandel, who with Karol Markowicz, wrote a book “Stolen Youth,” and so she went on tour to promote it, including an interview with Briahna Joy Gray and Robby Soave. It didn’t go well.
LOL: Briahna Joy Gray BREAKS the brain of Rising guest Bethany Mandel by asking her to define "wokeness" pic.twitter.com/uwRSSH0LaM
— The Vanguard (@vanguard_pod) March 14, 2023
On the one hand, she was sandbagged in that she wasn’t prepared to succinctly define a word that was born of the left to boldly pronounce their progressive ideology, subsequently seized upon by the right as a catch-all word for members of the progressive left. On the other hand, she should have been prepared for this question, even though it was a somewhat disingenuous question.
Did she freeze? Did she simply not have a ready answer that wouldn’t be simultaneously reductivist and exposed for attack because it was undefined when the left stole it from the black lexicon and captures so broad and malleable an ideology that no matter what answer is given, it will be inadequate and open to dispute?
Of course, that didn’t have to be Mandel’s problem. She could have, and should have, had a ready response at hand when the crux of her book is condemning “woke” ideology with regard to children. By the fumfering response, the left saw it as proof that the conservative attack on the woke was devoid of meaning, whether they were attacking a strawman or that there was no such thing as the “woke” and hence the right couldn’t attack progressive ideology because they couldn’t define it.
Indeed, even MSNBC’s Rachel Lite put the clip on her show, characterizing Mandel’s answer by saying “something about oppression,” suggesting that Alex Wagner was unfamiliar with the word “hierarchy.”
Later, Mandel provided a definition on twitter, but there’s only one chance to make a first impression.
A radical belief system suggesting that our institutions are built around discrimination, and claiming that all disparity is a result of that discrimination. It seeks a radical redefinition of society in which equality of group result is the endpoint, enforced by an angry mob.
— Bethany S. Mandel (@bethanyshondark) March 15, 2023
While this definition is obviously better than what she had on hand for the interview, it still seems substantially inadequate. It doesn’t take into account the authoritarian zeal for censorship of “hate speech,” the denial of due process for those it hates, the presentism view of historical fact, the “ends justifies the means” rejection of principle for outcome or the narcissistic denial of science when it gets in the way of stereotypical group pseudo-individualism. And if I spent more time thinking about it, there are likely another dozen pieces to the woke puzzle that I’ve missed.
Many have tried to define “woke” from the right or center, but few on the left. There is a reason for this: it’s harder to hit a moving target, and definitions fix meaning and thus make it available as a target for criticism. You can’t criticize what you can’t define, as Orwell explained. Did anyone ask for a definition when people on the left proudly proclaimed themselves “woke”? Even if they had, and I don’t recall it happening, it would likely have been answered by reference to a particular issue or cause. And that would have been more than sufficient for the purpose of asserting a belief as to whatever was the issue du jour.
The issue now, a problem for the right and a shield for the left, is that now that “woke” has been turned from proud replacement for SJW into a pejorative by conservatives, its definition has become a battlefield rather than the overarching bundle of beliefs held by a group with no acceptable name.
Whether Bethany Mandel got caught may have been fodder for the left to ridicule, but does that mean there is no such thing as the “woke,” or if that word still triggers you, progressives? As Freddie deBoer wrote back in 2021:
Please Just Fucking Tell Me What Term I Am Allowed to Use for the Sweeping Social and Political Changes You Demand
If you ask these people, are you part of a social revolution?, they’ll loudly tell you yes! Yes they are! They’re going to shake society at its very foundations. Well, OK then -what do I call your movement? You reject every name that organically develops! I’ll use the name you pick, but you have to actually pick one. You can’t just bitch on Twitter every time someone tries to describe your political cohort, which again you yourself say intends to change the world. Name yourself or you will be named.
That Bethany Mandel used the word “woke” as a name with which to call a “movement” of people that obviously exists and is undeniably acting in furtherance of its ideology wasn’t because of a limiting definition, but because, well, they haven’t taken a name and stuck with it long enough to nail them down. No one is going to be convinced that no such thing exists because Mandel froze when asked for a definition. No one is going to be convinced that the issues raised don’t exist because of a word which defies easy definition because it captures such a wide-ranging array of beliefs. an ever-shifting bundle of outcomes obsessed with identities and hierarchies (there’s that word again, Alex) and victimhood and misery.
If it shouldn’t be called “woke,” then come up with a name that pleases you more. But if you do, that means Bethany Mandel will be able to use it too. And you refuse to let that happen.
Update: After writing this post, I learned that Freddie deBoer wrote another post about the definition of woke yesterday. I’m not sure it helps, but I would be remiss not to take note of it.
Discover more from Simple Justice
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
I scrolled down immediately to see if you posted “Scottsboro Boys” by Lead Belly today. Honestly, I’m pretty disappointed that you, of all SJ commenters, missed the opportunity.
Dave doesn’t do “obvious.”
I often use the broader term, “batshit crazy,” but I use it for the nutjobs on the right as well, so it isn’t unique to the alleged “progressives.” I don’t think there is a real need for precision to criticize the mooks. If someone is pushing a batshit crazy, bow-to-the-hat-on-the-pole ideology, that person is an idiot and is not bringing anything but problems.
Woke (n) – 1. The state of believing that rights are vested in groups, not individuals; that all evils in the world are due to white, male capitalists and that the descendants of these people are also collectively guilty of whatever the current point of outrage is; that the minority group of the moment is better than all other groups and that anyone who doesn’t agree is a non-person who must be ostracized from society; that failure to achieve equal outcomes is due to discrimination and not lack of ability or effort on the part of individuals who fail to achieve; that only the mob can determine what is acceptable behavior now, in the past and in the future, and that such definitions are effective retroactively with punishments to be applied as the mob sees fit.
2. A contagious mental illness.
Justice Potter Stewart.
“I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material but I know it when I see it.”
If you’re having a debate about what “woke” means, and whether it’s terrible or heroic, you’ve lost the plot. People could just talk about specific principles and outcomes instead of getting sucked into the latest tabloid culture rivalry. Those who go there, good luck with that. The media conglomerates and politicians and online trolls thank you.
It is like Universal Healthcare, Minimum Basic Income, reparations, and Social Justice.
All of these things are well intentioned and sound good to many.
Right up until you start talking about what exactly is meant.
Then your coalition starts to dissolve
One point deserving more emphasis on this (CDL) site is that Ms Mandel failed to rehearse adequately for her cross examination. Part of her charm –and I do find her charming most days–is her “I have 6 kids in my home school classroom, but I still have my stuff together by Friday night candle-lighting” schtick: the Yiddish equivalent of “sprezzatura” (shpritz a torah?). That works only if you pull it off without fail. I am still a fan, but I wish Ms Mandel did more homework.
Did you sleep through 2017? One must ask, because “woke” was a short-lived effect, not an ideology. A number of media personalities were run out of their professions on account of sexual improprieties; specifically as a result of Trump’s inauguration raised the question if powerful people were immune to consequences after bragging about committing acts that that could arguably been classified as sexual assault if the statute of limitations had not expired.
But “woke” had nearly no effect on the politically powerful save for Al Franken and was proven to be less than useless on 6 October 2018 when Brett Kavanagh became Associate Justice Kavanagh. Thus the Tara Reade accusations against a Democratic nominee in 2020 quickly went nowhere, whereas such accusations during previous election cycles have led to impeachment. The bones of the toothless “wokeness” skeleton would have remained buried, if not dug up as a pejorative in the 2020s after the success of the anti-CRT campaign.
As for the definition of progressive ideology, look no further than Wikipedia entry on progressivism:
“a social or political movement that aims to represent the interests of ordinary people through political change and the support of government actions.”
Somehow right-leaning media, despite launching a highly effective campaign against progressive abbreviations like CRT and short-lived slogans of desperation like Defund the Police, have lately been unable to turn words like progressive, liberal, left and democrat into an epithet throughout the non-conservative ecosystem…and even old standbys like socialist and communist have lost their effect, both because society and community spring from the same root words and the Soviet Union died more than 30 years ago.
Truthfully, the largest problem is the 6 January 2021 effect. Prior to the Capitol Attack, the most influential term in defining left-vs-right was “law-abiding,” as depicting progressive protest as lawless was always the one standby the media could rely on…and then Brian Sicknick died. Trying to tar your enemies in BLM while simultaneously declaring 6 January defendants as political prisoners and trying to classify Ashli Babbitt as a martyr rather than a violent attacker has induced some epic cognitive dissodence…especially after Chauvin, Kueng, Lane and Thao were found guilty of the murder they committed which sparked the 2020 unrest. But right-leaning media succeeded nevertheless, with the anti-CRT campaign in 2021.
But since Dobbs, they are back into the wilderness. As the nation fractures over abortion, right-leaning media finds none of their old standby epithets are working, so they and Republican politicians resurrect “woke” from its 2018 Supreme Court nomination-stopping grave. This quite understandably isn’t working either, and has the potential to backfire as the original question, should people with credible accusations of sexual impropriety be entrusted with significant power, still stands.
Oh? And here I thought woke meant “hugs puppies.” I should have looked at Wikipedia first.