The Two Dimensional Teacher

As  Brian Tannebaum twitted it with his typical aplomb, it seemed only right to take a look.  Another  cheerleading post designed to capture the fascination of the unemployed young lawyers who have little to do but seek comfort wherever they could find it. 

But a part of the story caught my eye, about a former Cardozo grad who, according to the story, made good.



For Rachel Rodgers, 29, technology is also central to her business model.


The 2009 Cardozo School of Law graduate spent a year clerking for a judge and then decided to start her own firm while working a part-time job at a law firm. She was laid off after they ran out of work for her to do, but her unemployment gave her the push she needed to dedicate more time and effort to building her practice.


By working from her home in Phoenix, Ariz., and using her website as her storefront, she manages to keep overhead costs less than $500 a month. Her virtual office allows clients to log into her website and, like a bank’s secure online system, send information back and forth between her clients.


Rodgers credits her success to the confidence she gained from the clerkship and to Solo Practice University, a subscription-based website founded in 2009 that offers video, written and audio tutorials for prospective or current solo practitioners.

Was Rachel Rodgers really a success story?  It was worth a few minutes to find out.  She has a snazzy website, where she describes herself as “owner/attorney” of the Rachel Rodgers Law Firm.  It’s not just Rodgers, as she lists  Donna Seyle as being of counsel, which is curious since Seyle is a well-known internet lawyer technology coach, which some might call marketer, with her own consulting business. How she finds the time to be part of Rachel Rodgers’ law firm is beyond me.

Rodgers has her law office in Arizona, though she’s not admitted to practice law there.  But then, it’s not at all clear that what she’s selling is legal services. 
Prior to forming her law practice, Rachel had various professional experiences in both the private law and public law sectors, where she handled corporate, criminal, family, real estate and small business matters. Rachel has developed expertise in various areas of alternative dispute resolution including negotiation, mediation and arbitration. Rachel has held judicial clerkships with both New York and New Jersey judges and has worked for federal district court handling cases referred to mediation in the alternative dispute resolution office. Prior to law school, Rachel worked for non-profits in New York, at a premier lobbying firm in Washington, D.C. and on Capitol Hill in the Senate office of Hillary Rodham Clinton.

That’s an awful lot of accomplishment for someone who graduated law school in 2009. Maybe even too much.  But what about the person?


Rachel comes from a family of entrepreneurs which is why she is passionate about helping people start and grow their own businesses. Due to growing up in the melting pot of New York City, Rachel enjoys learning about other parts of the world. She has traveled to Barbados, Ecuador, France, Hong Kong, Nigeria, Thailand and the United Kingdom to do volunteer work, to study and, yes, sometimes to just be a tourist. Rachel enjoys hanging out in bookstores, blogging (check out her blog  here), cooking, drinking East African coffee and watching the Jets play.

Aside from her misguided enjoyment of the Jets, she sounds like a lovely young lady. But does that qualify her to guide lawyers to success?  Apparently so.



ESQ: Want to Go Solo?



  • Are you a law student looking to start developing a strategy to go solo upon graduation?

  • Are you a new law graduate having trouble finding employment?

  • Are you a lawyer ready to go solo and wondering what area of law to practice?

  • Would you love to have your own practice but not sure how to obtain clients?

I am contacted every week by law students and lawyers who are struggling due to a tough job market and are wondering how they’ll pay off their loans, practice the type of law they always hoped to and have the type of lifestyle they always wanted. I have spent the last two years researching, planning and then building my own unique law practice and have been able to bring it to a place of profitability while also meeting my lifestyle needs. I believe that you can do the same.


I Can Help!


You can build the law practice of your dreams and I can help! I provide consulting sessions for lawyer-entrepreneurs wanting to set up their own innovative, tech-savvy law practices. For many lawyers (especially recent law grads), entrepreneurship is the only way that they will be able to practice law and do so in a way that fits their lifestyle and philosophy. I understand this dilemma as I am also a recent law grad. I will help you develop a strategy and actionable plan to get your solo practice off the ground.

Rachel Rodgers seems to have all her ducks lined up, not only ready to take on the world, but to teach others, whether law students or new lawyers, how to be just like her.

And all this since graduating law school in 2009. 

One certainly can’t question Rachel’s work ethic and moxie, as she seems determined not to sit on the couch in her parent’s basement waiting for the phone to ring.  But it amazes me, yet again, in this wondrous internet age how very new, very raw lawyers assert their capacity to do things that I’ve spent 30 years learning, and am still learning. 

Maybe I ought enlist Rachel’s help in making my practice the “practice of my dreams,” because my experience has been a lot like Ken’s at Popehat, the Continuous Thunderous Suckitude of Legal Marketing.  The internet has not proven to be a particularly good source of business.  In fact, it’s been a monumental time suck, and it’s most assuredly inadequate as a basis to form a viable law practice.

Yet another newbie lawyer seems to have found Nirvana in the two-dimensional world of the computer screen.  Amazing how baby lawyers are finding such fabulous success overnight on the internet, so much so that they are now equipped to teach others how to be just like them.  It kinda makes experience gained over decades practicing of law seem so . . . worthless.

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44 thoughts on “The Two Dimensional Teacher”

  1. Rachel Rodgers

    Hi Scott,

    Thanks so much for the mention and the compliments! I truly appreciate it.

    If you don’t mind, I would like to address a few of your points. First, on my accomplishments, my mother always said I was an overachiever. Second, I just want to clarify that I have no Arizona clients. I live in Arizona because that is where it makes sense for my family to be right now. In fact, my family has had to move a few times since law school, which is why my focus was creating an online-based practice.

    Third, while clerking and before I went solo, I relentlessly researched the virtual law office model and called/emailed with every attorney I could find who was doing it. Unfortunately, Jay Foonberg’s How to Start & Build a Law Practice did not address VLO’s. Building on this information, plus plenty more from several very experienced lawyers, I created my own online-based practice.

    Fourth, I have a huge respect for experience which is why I contacted so many experienced lawyers before launching. Its also why I have an Of Counsel with over 20+ years of experience (and yes, she is amazing for finding the time to work with me). But the reason droves of law students and young lawyers are contacting me every week for advice on how to create their own source of income, given the job market, is because they don’t want to talk to someone who did it 30 years ago. They want to talk to someone who knows what its like to be in their shoes and is doing it now. That is why I have consulting clients.

    My overall point is that we, young lawyers, can’t do things the way they were done 30 years ago out of respect for experienced lawyers. Lawyers with 30 years of experience did not graduate from law school in the current digital age and into a lousy economy. (Some might say experienced lawyers are partially to blame for the current changes in the legal profession; not me, of course!). And its not a requirement that we learn something for 20 years, before we are ‘allowed’ to share our knowledge.

    Like my friend Susan Cartier-Liebel says, “doing it ‘your way’ and doing it correctly are not mutually exclusive.”

    Thank you again for the mention, the feedback and for letting me share my perspective.

  2. SHG

    Susan has a bad habit of saying meaningless yet self-servingly insipid things like that.  But a question lingers: Does a lot of phone calls (droves?), even by an over-achiever, turn a law student incapable of practicing law into a person not only qualified to practice, but qualified to teach others how to practice?

    I keep hearing new lawyers talk about how great they’re doing, both as lawyers and successful entrepreneurs.  I wonder why I only see them on the internet, and never in the trenches. 

  3. Marlee

    I don’t know that what Rachel does should be considered “teaching other lawyers how to practice.” The only thing that can do that (as you’ve suggested) is being in the trenches and working with mentors (which Rachel does).

    Rather I think Rachel is paving the way for new and young lawyers to develop tech-savvy business models for the practice of law. Being that she’s done that successfully. I’d say she’s certainly qualified to share her experience and knowledge for the betterment of others and the way the business of law is conducted.

    Nice spell check feature in your comments, btw.

  4. SHG

    Is Rachel “paving the way?” Has she “done that successfully?”  I don’t know.  As for you’re saying so, I note from your twitter bio:

    I’m on a mission to help YOU pursue online entrepreneurship, while LAUGHING, LOVING-LIFE, & reaching YOUR MAX POTENTIAL to POSITIVELY impact the world. Join me!

    One of the most unfortunate aspects of such exuberance is the unfortunate tendency to rely on meaningless phrases in lieu of substance.  This is the sort of stuff that plays poorly with real lawyers but appeals to the cheerleaders pretending that if they keep claiming to be wonderful, maybe they really will be some day.

    Your support of Rachel is very sweet, but empty, just as her claims are empty.  Will there be a real lawyer who vouches for Rachel’s worth?  I hope, for her sake, there is.

  5. Steve

    Do you not realize how absurd you sound? Who do you think you’re kidding. This may play with the pathetic clueless losers who desperately cling to anything, but it’s not going to persuade anyone who actually practices law.

    Grow up. You look ridiculous.

  6. SHG

    This is what new lawyers are taught by their online “mentors,” to fake it till they make it.  If they live a lie, surrounding themselves with liars and repeat the lies often enough, it’s allows them to pretend they are real. 

  7. Marlee

    Your personal attacks serve no one. Perhaps the some else needs to do some growing up around here. What good is healthy debate if it can’t be healthy. Your need to go that far to make your point is laughable. Besides, why defend you position from a mere cheerleader making empty claims.

  8. SHG

    There was no personal attack Marlee.  I realize that it may seem that way to you, as social media is all about being nice to others so they will follow you on twitter, but that’s not how real lawyers function.  I thought I was quite kind to you, considering how open you are to ridicule.

    The point of responding isn’t to convince you, but other young lawyers who think that someone has a magic bullet that will bring them wealth and success on the internet, if only they close their eyes and click their heels three times.

  9. Danni

    So…a new lawyer w/ no job prospects learns how to deliver a good product & can market it. But you think she should just collect unemployment until someone hires her so she can be “properly trained”? I spent years in BIG Law where I received “training” that prepared me to do nothing except review documents. I have friends in SMALL law who spend years learning practices areas now virtually unusable due to the economy. How many young lawyers have you employed? How are you and your cohort helping these new grads find their way? This post smacks of an elder who when through hell to “make it” and resents the younger generation who makes different choices. If she went to your school – I wonder why she didn’t ask YOU to be a mentor. But I guess we can see why from your post. If you “mentor” students the way you tear down baby lawyers trying to find their way…one feels pity for your students.

  10. SHG

    So life is miserable and that entitles baby lawyers to scam their way to success through marketing?  No, the young lawyers I mentor learn the skills and principles of being a lawyer, foremost of which is that the client comes first.  If their interest is in learning only how to fake it through internet marketing, they will not be at all happy with me as a mentor. and they do deserve pity.

    If you can’t make it as a lawyer without faking it, then do something else.  There’s no entitlement to success in the law by faking your way through. 

  11. Donna

    Maybe you’re just another old lawyer who is threatened by younger lawyers who can successfully use the internet to market themselves and don’t have to go through the learning curve that old timers went through. Maybe you just don’t get it that times have change and technology has moved forward without you.

  12. SHG

    Maybe, but then there are plenty of new lawyers who use technology and receive my applause and appreciation.  The difference is honesty and integrity rather than puffery and deceipt.  I know that notions like honesty are old-fashioned and counterproductive to those young lawyers who think they can spin their way to success using internet marketing.  I disagree.  Tech-savvy doesn’t have to mean deceptive or dishonest.

  13. Jay Fleischman

    You say that, “The internet has … been a monumental time suck, and it’s most assuredly inadequate as a basis to form a viable law practice.”

    Personally, I think it’s a matter of the type of law you practice. Does a criminal defendant pull out an iPhone and Google for a lawyer as the cuffs are going on? I don’t think so.

    For your practice, I’m betting that you get more in the way of reputation-building among your colleagues.

    On the flip side, does a husband look online for information about his parental rights in the event of a divorce? And finding that information from a local lawyer, is he more likely to at least give the lawyer a shot for a consultation? I’d say that’s a better field for the whole “blogging for lawyers” model.

    Same thing for my practice. People have a problem, sit on the Internet for hours at a clip looking for information and answers to their questions. Bankruptcy isn’t an emergency for most people, so it lends itself more to information-gathering.

  14. Ken

    Scott is definitely threatened. But not nearly as threatened as the young marketeers’ clients, who will put their money and lives in the hands of lawyers who only know how to attract legal work, not how to give actual value in exchange for money, and not how to protect their clients’ legal interests.

    In the marketing ethos, Joseph Rakofsky is a success story.

  15. SHG

    You raise two separate but very interesting issues.  First, that people who use the internet to research their legal problems in criminal law often come away in worse shape than when they started.  They aren’t equipped to understand what they read, aside from the one immutable rule that criminal defense blawgers keep reinterating: Remain silent.

    Second, there is a great deal of good information, but a great deal of bad information as well. Some is truly awful.  People who research aren’t capable of discerning which is which, and often, the bad is more to their liking than the good.  This is one of the reasons peer review, which is by definition critical, is so important.  We don’t applaud or ignore bad information to make lawyers feel better about themselves. It’s not about the lawyers, but about the clients.  That’s the nature of being a lawyer, something that too many young lawyers on the internet fail to realize.

  16. SHG

    A bit presumptuous of you.  Do we know that they know how to attract legal work because they says so?  Is there really a call for 10,000 out of work baby lawyers pretending to be rainmakers on the internet?  Not everybody can be Adrian Dayton.

  17. Ken

    Oh, you dinosaur. Just as the important thing is not qualifications, but the ability to convince strangers on the internet that you have qualifications, the important part is not lots of Google hits, but the ability to convince strangers on the internet that you have lots of Google hits. It’s all very meta; you wouldn’t understand.

  18. SHG

    You make me sound “like a fairy-tale ogre who drinks only the tears of children.”

    I feel just awful.

  19. Eric L. Mayer

    I’ve practiced for over 7 years (since Spring 2004), but I’m still under 1 in private practice. I can tell you that I am hardly qualified to tell anyone how to start or manage a practice. In 5 or so years, it may be a different story, but not anytime soon.

    The best advice I’ve had in starting and maintaining my practice comes from those with over 10 years of experience. Their advice, however, does not come gently, nor should it. Too many in my generation and younger want kind, soft mentorship. I know because several have worked for me. They found themselves driven to depression by direct, no-frosting criticism.

    Oh, and real mentors aren’t selling mentorship. The duty to find a mentor is on you, not the old crusty guy who’s been practicing 30 years. You must sell yourself to them, not vice versa.

    If what Scott says stings a bit, determine what fits and what doesn’t. Then, rub a little dirt on your wound and get back to work.

    You’re wasting your life right now. Go. Hustle for a few cases. Try them. Get bloody and beaten. Rinse. Then repeat. We’ll all respect you for it.

    It ain’t pretty, despite what the internet says.

  20. Kristin

    I am currently gainfully employed in the legal profession by virtue of working at this place of employment while in law school and they have chosen to keep me here as an asset in youth, knowledge and experience to the company.

    I worked with Rachel while I was in law school on various charitable endeavors and I do not think anything of that nature should be shunned or scoffed at. I went to law school part-time so I had the fortune of being employed full-time though only in my 20s so perhaps you may consider me a “baby” lawyer too.

    While I was in law school, I also started management consulting because I had an MBA. I did not do it because I had to or because no one would hire me. I did it because I was and I continue to be ambitious.

    I did not always have the right answers but when I didn’t I consulted someone with experience to help me through. I still do this. Someone’s age, years in practice, title as solo practitioner or internet lawyer, etc. etc. does not destroy or even determine their knowledge of the law.

    Additionally, I do not believe that Criminal Law and Entrepreneurs, or most specifically Rachel’s target market of Gen Y entrepreneurs go hand in hand, so perhaps that is also a rub in this debate.

    Young lawyers like myself are young, but youth and ambition should be celebrated not paraded in such an unfair arena such as this for others to criticize.

    I applaud what Rachel is doing because the thing about it is there is no one way to be a lawyer. I was always “taught” that the law is collegial in “law school”. Was this not true?

    I think that experienced lawyers should also note that the lawyers you are calling “young” do look up to you, but situations such as this discourage such feelings.

  21. Ken

    It really is remarkably like the late-90s internet bubble, isn’t it? Young people sneering that only people wedded to the old way of thinking cared about “profits,” when there are so many people out there willing to buy your advice about running a business that never actually makes money.

    Marketeers: encouraging pets.com thinking.

  22. SHG

    No, the law is not collegial in nature. They lied to you. That’s why they call it an adversary system.  And if someone not petting you on the head and telling you how nice you are is discouraging, then find another job quickly. You should not be a lawyer.

  23. Kristin

    I do not need anyone to pet me on the head. I do that on my own, thank you. I see you do not detect sarcasm well. That’s okay. I see you also do not understand the nature of Rachel’s success.

  24. SHG

    It must be my fault for not appreciating the wit of your comment or Rachel’s success.  I’m still wondering what that success might be.

  25. SHG

    Now you’ve done it. Now you’re an evil ogre too.  Nobody tells the twinkies “no.” It’s just not permitted. They are only to be told how wonderful they are, and if they pretend to be huge successes, then we must applaud and blow kisses and pretend that every baby lawyer in practice for 12 minutes is brilliant.

    And they cry when the judge says “denied,” because judges are evil ogres too.

  26. Keith Lee

    I’m a recent law grad too. “Digital native” as well. Way more than most of our gen (outside IT types) making that claim I’d wager. Got a blog. It’s not at the Scott “check out my huge traffic” Greenfield level, but in comparison to every other law blogger I’ve discussed traffic with, it’s definitely one of the more popular out there. Haven’t got any clients from it either. Go figure.

    I don’t really talk about getting clients though or flaunt my credentials about how awesome I am. The most popular thing I’ve written in the past two weeks (generating thousands of pageviews) was about me getting peed on. Or maybe I write about how hard being a lawyer is, working all weekend because there is a brief due Monday and I don’t get to see my family that weekend like I had planned.

    Mostly I write about trying to become a better lawyer. Learning from my mistakes, talking about an interesting piece of research I’ve found, or trying to offer (what I hope is) useful advice to those who are in my same situation. What I definitely don’t do is try and sell services about how to operate a law office or acquire clients. That would be disingenuous and would smack of hubris.

    When I want to know how to run a law office, I look at the internals of my own firm. Or I go to local bar events (you’re joined your local bar right?) and speak to other, more experienced lawyers there. Or I read online about what other, more “seasoned” attorneys are doing. Essentially I keep my mouth shut and keep my ears and eyes open.

    Same for acquiring clients. I could really care less what some recent grad thinks about getting clients. But the senior partner at my firm who has consistently been bringing in new corporate clients during the economic downturn? Yes. The older attorneys at local bar events that have been practicing for 30 years and have successful firms? Yes again. What’s funny is that if you go up to them and respectfully ask for some time and would they mind having lunch with a new lawyer if they have the time – nearly all of them say yes.

    As far as I can tell, this profession (like most things) is largely about relationships. Yes, you can form (real) relationships online. But they’re not as good as the ones you can have with people down the street that you can actually meet with in person. The online ones really aren’t worth a damn if you’re charging for them either. And the best way to develop relationships that matter is to be honest and forthright about who you are. Not through puffery and pomposity. Look at Joseph Rakofsky to see where that leads you.

  27. Kristin

    You are mistaken in that you think I am searching for you to appreciate something about me. This is also why you probably do not understand what is going on here. It’s okay. I am sure many other people do.

    But I do actually have work to do now, so I suppose our debate is over. Thanks for the memories and for the inspiration to other “young” lawyers to keep on doing what they do, despite the critics.

  29. SHG

    I just found out I was having a debate with some girl named Kristin.  I don’t think I’m a digital native.  I rely on people like you to explain it to me so I don’t miss the next debate.

  31. SHG

    And yet she appears to be quite pleased with herself.  I didn’t even mention that her comment are incomprehensible, because I figured it was some slackoisie thing and I just didn’t get it. Again. Don’t I look foolish now.

  33. Steve

    I see that poor Rachel Rodgers ran away to cry on twitter to all her social media guru friends for comfort, and they say old lawyers are just too threatened by young successful people like poor Rachel, and they’re IDIOTS.

    You, Greenfield, are an IDIOT.

  34. SHG

    I am not an IDIOT!  I am “a fairy-tale ogre who drinks only the tears of children.”  Are you not paying attention?

  35. BRIAN TANNEBAUM

    Can I have the 10 minutes back I took reading the comments from these nothing crybabies? As for Donna Seyle, didn’t her consulting venture go belly up and now shes working at JD Supra or something?

    There is one unanswered question: Is there a single real lawyer out there that will claim they used this Rogers or Seyle or any of these faux “build your dream practice” consultants?

    My dream practice would have them all disbarred.

  36. David Sugerman

    Damn. Practice law all day, and you miss the fun and excitement. I am one of those crusty lawyers, with 25 years of experience. I teach and mentor young lawyers. And here is the thing: I do it as part of my pro bono work. Sorry, but there is no magic, and there are no shortcuts to success in practice. Anyone who sells you otherwise is selling tulips at the height of the craze and pets.com stock before the crash.

    While I don’t know it for a fact, I would bet a hypothetical key lime pie that SHG, Brian Tannebaum, Mark Bennett and the like spend copious amounts of time guiding those who are trying to do it right.

    Those of us who survived or thrived stand on the shoulders of others. That is part of why I do what I do. The other motivation is to take snakeoil sales opportunities away.

  37. SHG

    Your snarky reaction diminishes the brilliance of Rachel Rodgers and her supporters.  She is paving the way to success. How could you possibly doubt her vast accomplishments, legal acumen and value as a mentor to others, just because she’s only been a lawyer for ten minutes.

    And don’t let the potential that her websites violates a significant number of ethical proscriptions, or may reflect engagment in the criminal unauthorized practice of law, trivialize her vast accomplishments. You just don’t get it.

  38. SHG

    I am a fairy tale ogre, not to be confused with experienced lawyers who mentor young lawyers like Tannebaum and Bennett.

  39. AH

    SHG:

    When I was a prosecutor, I noticed that the riches CDLs were the least technical lawyers. They were guys who spend $30k a year on direct mailings (that was before internet) but didn’t even have a Westlaw account. It was all sales and hustle. They’d take the clients for as much money as they could get and then enter a quick negotiation with the prosecutor.

    One guy told me that his client heard on the TV news about a new Supreme Court case involving DUI roadblocks. He told his lawyer about it and the lawyer filed a motion to suppress. The lawyer and I joked about it. BTW, these CDLs have absolutely no shame. They are secretly proud of how the practice and joke about it with each other and the prosecutors. They are not non-technical because they are stupid. They are sharp as hell. They just won’t put in extra effort on an advertising driven flat fee case practice.

    Criminal defense is susceptible to a combination of clever marketing and apathy in a way that other practice areas are not. Contingency lawyers have the same interests as their clients. Commercial lawyers get clients by reputation and are paid an hourly rate.

    Advertising driven criminal defense mills can be the worst mills (from the client’s perspective, not the attorneys) because, unlike real estate or bankruptcy mills which have low flat rates, the CDL will smell the client’s fear, talk about how aggressive he is, charge as much as he can, and then deliver the standard mill style service.

    None of this is really a basis for a bar beef or lawsuit. Most criminal cases settle after all. You can’t fault the lawyer for finding no defenses and entering a negotiation. And the client is usually satisfied with the service.

    Since clients come from marketing, what happenned with today’s client will have no effect on the client that clicks on your website tomorrow.

  40. SHG

    And then there are CDLs who don’t advertise or market at all, and yet have exceptional practices and very satisfied and appreciative clients, who refer them cases because they know them to be hard-working, client-centric, ethical and prepared to do everything possible within the bounds of the law to defend their clients.

    Who should be the model for the next generation of lawyers?

  41. AH

    SHG:

    I agree with you and I personally practice as diligently and as ethically as I can.

    I wasn’t endorsing, the CDL mill business model, just pointing out that it exists, it works, and its been around for longer than the internet has.

  43. Erika

    Am I the only one who has noticed that Rachel’s online “legal” profile sounds suspiciously like a personals ad?

    Or do people actually hire lawyers based upon where their coffee comes from or that they like to cook? 🙂

  44. SHG

    It’s part of an enlightened social media strategy where you humanize yourself and share tidbits of personal  information in order to establish common ground with others and bond over your passionate love of cats, baking cupcakes or black coffee.  As the marketing folks tell it, people hire people they like, so make yourself likeable (no one gives a crap about competent) and smile all the way to the bank (while walking your dog).

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