Is the Iran war pretty much over or what?
After a day of conflicting signals about when the war against Iran might end, President Trump struck a belligerent tone Monday evening, warning of even more aggressive action if Iranian leaders tried to cut off the world’s energy supply.
“We will hit them so hard that it will not be possible for them or anybody else helping them to ever recover that section of the world,” Mr. Trump said, meeting with reporters.
Earlier in the day, the president suggested that the U.S.-Israeli war against Iran could be near an end. The war “is very complete, pretty much,” Mr. Trump said in a phone interview with a CBS reporter, Weijia Jiang. He said, “We’re very far ahead of schedule.”
The day before, he told UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer that we already won the war. He said the objective was unconditional surrender and that he got to approve their choice of leader. It was about eradicating Iran’s nuclear weapons program that had been obliterated just a few months earlier. It was about eliminating Iran’s ballistic missile program. It was about regime change until it wasn’t. So what will it take before Trump decides that his war is over?
Asked at the news conference later if the war with Iran would be over this week, Mr. Trump said, “No.” He said only “soon, very soon.”
The reality that the war is happening cannot be disputed. The reality that Congress will do nothing about it is behind us. And regardless of whether there was any imminent justification for engaging in an offensive war against Iran at this time, there are few countries more deserving of attack than Iran. It is thus entirely in Trump’s hands to decide when he, the great and glorious Trump, is victorious. This raises two questions.
- What will have to happen before Trump declares a complete victory?
- What should happen before the war comes to an end?
While Secretary of State and former honorable man, Marco Rubio, has done his best to sane-wash Trump’s semi-coherent and invariably conflicting claims, only to be undercut by Trump at every turn, it is not outside the realm of possibility that Trump wakes up with gas and declares victory, claims the Ayatollah Mojtaba Khamenei is his new Delcy who likes him very much, and that many people are saying the new Trump Tehran Resort and Golf Course on the newly demolished property will be the greatest resort ever.
But given this opportunity to deal with Iran since bombs have already dropped and Iran has long been a thorn in the side of its neighbors, a blight on enlightened civilization and a primary sponsor of international terrorism, what should be accomplished before the tomahawks go silent?
*Tuesday Talk rules apply.
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The war will end when Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff learn enough about nuclear weapons to realize that they were wrong. I am not holding my breath.
Should be accomplished? The strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must. Should has little to do with matters of imperialism. Can is operative.
Seems we’ve expended enough ammunition and killed enough children and blown up enough infrastructure and sacrificed more than enough blood and should call it a day to me. What else can we possibly do? We will run out of bombs and/or legitimate targets if we haven’t already. We thankfully aren’t building up ground troops and the tons and tons of stuff necessary for a boots on the ground scenario . . . yet. While it seems the admin knows they cannot possibly do that, they deserve no trust.
And what has actually been accomplished what was the point? Further entrenching the hateful regime? To motivate them even more to redouble their efforts to attack us? To drive up energy costs? Force us to use the 5th Fleet to make sure Iran doesn’t functionally close down the Strait of Hormuz and choke our global economy? Further convince the world that getting nukes is the only way to ensure the U.S. doesn’t attack your country on a whim?
It turns out North Korea was right about that, which is very strange to type. North Korea was correct. They learned that lesson after we bombed their country until quite literally our military concluded there was nothing left to bomb. It still was not enough. The nukes pointed at Seoul are a fantastic deterrent to adventurism, it turns out. And look at that, yet another perverse incentive being ignored.
Nothing has to happen for this to end. Trump will declare victory after we have no more military objectives reasonably obtainable and that will be that. Whatever was “accomplished” will become the goal all along and the world will move onto the next catastrophe. Like invading Cuba for whatever awful jingoistic reason.
We call the department “Defense” for a reason. War is stupid, especially if you don’t ground it in protecting our interests in some way. This was doomed from the start because what we could accomplish was minimal without sacrifice that we would not suffer. It will never reach the should stage.
Missiles go boom and Petey happy about booms. Reminds him of the thumping bass when he was boozing at clubs. Amateur.
Don’t take it from me. Go read a book or two.
“War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious.”
General Smedley Butler in 1935. Goddamnit can we learn from the past? Please?
PK, slow down.
You’re undercutting the military more than a little bit here and severely overestimating the Iranian regime. It is a house of cards that can be knocked down with a little more pressure. It’s brittle and showing cracks Just accept that we’re in an imperial world and always have been. The romantic notions of the past are and always were a fiction, you’re right on that part, but opening up Iran will be a boon for the economy long term. If “the glory of war is all moonshine” then let’s not go for glory, let’s do it for better reasons.
In the 70s it was estimated by the U.S. the entire country of Iran only had enough water to support AT MOST 50 million people. They are at 90 million people now and are overstressing that terrain that you say is the bastion against any possibility of ground invasion. It is. That’s why you haven’t seen us move troops over there. “The deployment of millions cannot be improvised.”
Once we dispel your whining about reality, we can actually deal with conditions on the ground, which are not good. How many massive protests has the regime had to put down violently since 2000? 4? 5? How many people has the government killed? Too many for a fully functional regime. Sure, it shows the regime is resilient, but everything breaks in the end. Our country is breaking right now too. Shit happens. But we have the chance to stop some serious oppression here and can make something of the SNAFU.
There are elements in Iran which are waiting to turn on the regime. We can and should support them. If we don’t do something now the regime will allow people to die of thirst before it gives up power.
Yes, war is a racket. Like I said, it’s best we make the most of it then and try to do as much good as possible. We can’t abdicate our responsibility; you can’t abdicate it. A free and prosperous Iran is good for Iran and the world. And the most merciful war is the shortest one possible under the circumstances.
Shut up about the nukes already. No one sane is going to be using them. Iran would if they got them. That’s why we have to do this now. You’re not privy to the intelligence.
And stop comparing apples to oranges. North Korea is its own mess which is separate and distinct from Iran’s mess, Israel’s mess, and our mess. All different and all interconnected in different ways. Stop oversimplifying.
The landscape of battle has changed recently if you hadn’t noticed. Look at Ukraine and its drones and Iran and its. We need practical experience in this very sort of modern warfare to survive long term and retain our hegemony and frankly to save lives if shit really hits the fan and attrition warfare does become necessary at some point in the future. Constant improvement and adaptation requires some use. There’s no other way.
We should topple the regime by any means necessary. It’s a good investment. Yes, I’m aware of the sunk cost fallacy, you don’t need to remind me.
[PK Note: I find this fun.]
Badly, but historically.
First atomic weapons use in warfare since 1945. Things go downhill from there.
On a bright note, nuclear winter will make the survivors wistfully long for the good old days of global warming. And food. And modern dentistry.
The wars end when Americans find out how much it’s costing them to prune back a cruddy little nation on the far side of the earth. Be it the oil price skyrocketing, inflation rising because of disrupted fertilizer shipments, or just the billion dollar a day direct cost, this war is not cheap. Congress will act when the poll numbers move, and the poll numbers will move when America feels the pain.
The war won’t end until the US/ Israel have destroyed Iran’s stockpile of Supreme Leaders…
There are no Walmarts in Iran, only Targets.